Well folks, here’s the first ever showdown between Moore and SMBC. We know you’ve been waiting for it! Chris Ashton, a good bloke (yes, there are some!*) from SMBC comes to the Pilgrim’s Podcast studio and reps his college. And he does a cracker job of it too!
From churches around Sydney, to the vibe of church planting, to reformed theology, and all the way to creeds – we have a great yarn about these things!
Chris’ blog is over at: chrisashton.com.au Check it out! Good guy. Good site. Good yarn.
*disclaimer: that was a joke. We really love our brothers and sisters at SMBC!
Listen:
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13 comments
Greg Londish says:
August 25, 2009 at 10:11 am (UTC 10 )
Cheers for the St Clement’s shoutout
Mark says:
August 25, 2009 at 11:10 am (UTC 10 )
No worries! We’ve had many good times there and owe a lot to the ministry that’s gone on there! Probably deserves more shoutouts I reckon!
Seumas says:
August 28, 2009 at 12:25 pm (UTC 10 )
I’ve been listening to a few of the podcasts. Great stuff, keep up the good work.
Mark says:
August 31, 2009 at 10:10 am (UTC 10 )
Thanks mate! Glad you’re enjoying them! They’re a bit of a rant, but I love ‘em!
David Ould says:
September 2, 2009 at 7:05 pm (UTC 10 )
as always, excellent stuff.
You boys want to do something on global Anglican politics/disaster? Happy to oblige
As always, check with kt-rae.
Mark says:
September 2, 2009 at 7:26 pm (UTC 10 )
Haha! Well, that would probably take up episodes 20-30, so sure – let’s lock it in! … In fact, I’ll be at the ACL dinner tomorrow night, so let’s get scheming then!
shane says:
September 3, 2009 at 8:25 am (UTC 10 )
as always good stuff
particularly liked the Davies interview a few weeks ago. almost wanted to be Anglican (oh that right, I am)
did I detect a little nervousness in the creeds discussion with Chris Ashton? Is PSA the more fundamental divide? what do you do with orthodox creeds that weren’t dealing with modern theological controversy?!?
Alistar McGraths ” Christianity’s Dangerous Idea – the protestant revolution” p.460-472 has some curious conclusions on this. (as usual what he doesn’t say speaks louder)
see you at the ACL dinner.
Mark says:
September 4, 2009 at 10:03 pm (UTC 10 )
hey mate, nice to (albeit briefly!) chat to you the other night. I’m glad I’m in the same ship as you – even if there’s a long road ahead.
re: nervousness… hmm, I can’t quite remember it. But I do remember thinking – gee, this is a topic we’re slightly out of our depths on. particularly with respect to current controversies. I’ve reckon PSA is pretty darn important – but how do creeds help with that? I’m not so sure. Ashley Null was helpful on the Poddy when we spoke about primary and secondary issues – more specifically, how we don’t want secondary issues to become primary issues, BUT how we ought to reject secondary issues which obfuscate or confuse the primary issues. Ie, NPP and no-PSA. Anyway, that’s how I see the lie of the land, but without re-writing creeds for modern times, I’m still not sure how the ancient creeds help with modern debates. Thoughts?
Re: McGrath’s book – I’ve not read it, but from what you mentioned the other night, it might be a good one to read. What does he have to say about these sorts of issues?
shane says:
September 5, 2009 at 10:53 am (UTC 10 )
just finished McGrath
wouldn’t recommend it actually.
has some interesting thesis re protestantism needing an opposition yet felt he was way too not committal on defining things theologically, and conspicuously left out the most significant debates of the last 30 years regarding penal substitutionary atonement.
what he doesn’t say, even fails to say, often speaks louder.
a frustrating read but easily readable if you want to whip through 400 plus pages on 500 years of protestanism.
re creeds
ancient creeds had a particular context did they not. we may rightly reaffirm them now but also need to elaborate on other issues.
e.g in the apostles creed
he descended into hell.
some use ” on the cross he descended into hell”
at St Peters we say “on the cross he suffered the full extend of God’s wrath”
e.g 2
we ibeleive in the holy catholic church
we say
we beleive in the holy and apostolic church ( knowing that if you are apostolic you are catholic.
enjoy his grace
s
Mark says:
September 7, 2009 at 10:03 am (UTC 10 )
Right, yeah I’ve heard that McGrath’s got a few slightly strange takes on Reformation history actually. Like pitting Calvin against the Calvinists etc… But if it’s a frustrating read – well, let’s just say I’ve got plenty more books that’d take a front seat over a frustrating read!
Re: changing the Creeds – that’s interesting. At the Creeds conference with Carl Trueman, someone asked him about that very thing. He was a slight bit reluctant to fully endorse charging ahead and changing things, but did leave a place for making considered changes under the authority of the church. But he also made another interesting point – more to those who want to rewrite creeds from the ground up – that, do we really think that we could write a better Creed which could stand the test of time better than the ancient ones? That’s a mighty big call, he said.
I suppose I like that way of thinking. There’s a humility to realising the strength of our ancient creeds, but a bit of wriggle room for slow and cautious change.
Joshua Bovis says:
October 1, 2009 at 4:34 pm (UTC 10 )
We really love our brothers and sisters at SMBC!
And it is good thing that you do. You don’t want to cross us.
New it was a joke. There actually was an infamous Union Match where an SMBC slugged a MTC nancy boy. Apparently this is why each year the SMBC vs MTC is over a game of soccer instead of the Heavenly game.
Joshua Bovis says:
October 1, 2009 at 4:54 pm (UTC 10 )
Oops typo. Knew it was a joke! heheheheheheheh
Mark says:
October 1, 2009 at 7:03 pm (UTC 10 )
That’s terrible – Not simply that we’re playing soccer rather than rugby. That in itself is pretty bad, but I can’t believe we got decked by SMBC dudes! As Hinch would say: ‘shame, shame, shame.’